Timestamps:

0:02

All right, everybody, welcome back to another episode here.

A minisode to be specific.

Again, I don't like that word.

I don't like when I say that.

Mini specific.

Specific, I don't know, it just it just sounds funky.

Another minisode to be exact.

0:23

We are here chatting today.

Our minisodes, as always, are a surprise to the other person in the room where we talk about a critical incident, a large scale event where we pull up some radio traffic or some 911 call and just kind of talk about it from the lens of POV of a dispatcher.

0:44

Not the dispatcher, but a dispatcher.

So Are you ready?

I am ready.

Surprise me.

All right, so for today's conversation, we're going back to Cali K born and raised in California, but not this side of the the, the California.

1:04

We are going.

We are going to North Hollywood and we are going back in time, 1997, 1997, This is the North Hollywood shootout.

OK.

1:20

And you're exactly the one you're talking about.

I don't know when you started dispatching, but I started two years after this.

Did you?

Yeah.

So it was very prevalent in training for me.

OK so I kinda when I was looking at this, this is the first time I really dove into this so here we go.

1:36

It'll be good refresher.

I like it.

Hollywood Shootout, February 28th, 1997.

They actually call it the Battle of North Hollywood.

So Friday morning LA, two guys, Larry Phillips, junior, and it's going to be a little rough for this last name, Emil Mazzariano.

1:55

Common spelling.

Common spelling, yes, obviously.

And they walk into a Bank of America branch on Laurel Canyon Blvd. in the North Hollywood neighborhood.

They're they're going to be bank robbers today.

OK, but they're not your average bank robbers.

2:10

They are prepared.

They have been planning this for months.

OK, they have.

Some more advanced than Thelma and Louise.

A little more.

Distance.

OK, got it.

They've been scouting this bank.

They have been to this bank multiple times.

2:29

They've timed it.

They've known the layout and which I don't know, this is a big red flag for us.

They're armored up.

They're like ready, ready for to be intercepted, right?

So they're ready for a fight.

Phillips is wearing roughly 40 lbs of equipment.

2:48

You know what?

I'm gonna go with their first name just 'cause I have a hard time pronouncing Emil's last name.

So Larry Phillips and Emil.

So Larry is wearing 40 lbs of equipment, a bulletproof vest, a groin guard, homemade body armor on his shins, his thighs and his forearms.

3:06

And Emil similarly similar similarly armored their weapons.

They have 5 rifles between them, including a fully automatic rifle with drum magazines that are modified for their ammunition and they're shooting armor piercing rounds.

3:24

So not only are they prepared for a fight, they're prepared to like, shoot to kill like they're they're not just going to pop off surrounds to flee like they're.

They're lighting the world on fire.

Yeah, they're wanting to do damage or they're prepared to do damage, I should say.

So at the time in the policing like 1997, the this type of suspect set up PD doesn't normally deal with armored subjects with five to seven rifles.

3:52

This isn't an everyday car, right?

Like.

This isn't, you know, I think we more commonly see this now as a normal in policing, but not back then, right?

This.

Might happen in a few movies and I don't know if the good ones were out.

And back then, the standard LAPD at the time was a 9mm sidearm like that.

4:10

That's, that was your protection.

That was it.

No rifles.

And the rounds these guys were carrying, like I said, were through car doors, through cement walls, through it, like that's what they're made for.

So 916 in the morning, Philip or Larry and Emil go in.

4:28

They take the money, they're leaving with a little over $300,000.

And when they come out, LAPD is already on scene.

The silent alarm had been activated.

And they respond, it went from a robbery to a gunfight just like that right there in the parking lot on the public street, they start, they start firing.

4:50

So immediately brought officers broadcast that they're in a firefight.

They're they're taking fire.

I think firefight might be like old, older language.

Like, I don't think we'd call it a firefight anymore.

I don't think so either, but that does sound like the terminology.

5:05

But it might be, yeah.

So they're in a gunfight.

I'm going to go with gunfight because I work fire now.

I'm a little confused in my own head.

There's no fire.

They're in a gunfight.

They're also from a abnormal point.

And maybe I'll end up putting some footage here if I can find some.

5:21

They're watching it live on television because the news helicopters overhead of the incident 'cause you know, they've been they've been listening to that stuff.

So their news is overhead and they're in an active fight in front of this, in front of this bank.

5:42

So let's pause here and talk about that a little bit.

You're in dispatch center respond to a silent bank alarm, which is every every day, every day.

If you don't get a silent alarm coming like at least once a week.

You know, those are most often false alarms, but they're made for one that is real.

6:02

They they're they're supposed to help you get there faster, right.

So you're in this Jenner Meg, you send these fools to this silent alarm and they're probably like another one Bank of America.

Thanks.

They get on scene and they're like we're getting pinned down.

We're we're getting shot at what it what do you think?

6:18

It's crazy cause I've been on both sides.

I worked at a bank before I started dispatching.

So I've been the person that pushed the button and you're like, when are they coming and when are they gonna get here?

And to also the other side of it taking the call and then, you know, doing the whole protocols we have with the, with the bank.

6:36

So it I see it from both both sides, because if I was a teller and and these people walked in the heavily armored like that, you're like, dude, what, like take whatever you want, you know.

So from that access, I was like kind of flashbacks.

6:53

But for the dispatchers, this is unique because it's probably a pretty mundane real like, you know, like routine call for them.

And then that's like, this is 1997.

It's before body worn cameras, all the things we have now.

So if the news is up and, and like putting this out, you're like, I can only imagine, you know, you're like, it, it, it impacts your flow kind of at that time, 'cause we weren't technology immersed in dispatch at that time.

7:19

So I feel like how I don't know, that'd be that's a, that's a weird, that'd be weird, right?

Weird.

Be crazy.

And I mean, LAPD is a pretty large agency.

I imagine it was large back then.

There is a level of maybe they didn't, the dispatchers didn't have a relationship with these guys, you know, 'cause it's just such a big game sometimes.

7:36

Yeah.

And very large agencies don't know each other unless they're working on shift together.

So that that could have been a reality.

But these are still the guys you talk to all day and you're watching them get pinned down like I tough that would have been a tough reality.

7:52

But also you're thankful for the info and the Intel and and you're watching I'm.

Assuming I'm hoping a Sergeant, Lieutenant admin, somebody's in their office or somewhere watching it, that if they could provide any tactical advantages to them that they are 'cause I don't know that in 1997.

8:10

I'm not saying dispatch couldn't, but how immersive is that training at that time?

And like, what are you saying?

Like, like, turn around, He's behind you.

Like I don't like, you know?

And then another point to remind us from the dispatch world, right?

I got my guys pinned down.

I can watch it on the news, you know, and, and what happens when there's a major incident, everyone calls to tell you about it.

8:34

So they're also being flooded with 911 calls about people looking out their window watching and get, you know, their people are doing see some say something.

I appreciate it.

But now we're getting pinned down with 911 calls too.

So that's just another layer.

Of this Internet chaos again.

8:50

All right, so getting those 911 calls.

About four minutes into this gunfight, A911 call comes in from across the street from the bank.

The caller was reporting a disturbance involving 6 males nearby that gets logged.

9:08

It gets pushed out.

Officers are on scene.

They're already in the firefight taking rounds, people going down, they're thinking from that call that maybe there's additional suspects in the area.

They're not really quite sure.

But by the time it reaches some officers, it sounds like the confirmed additional suspects are still outstanding, right?

9:27

So a little confusion there from that one call because once you hear about more suspects, you have to, you know, research until it's no longer a fact, right?

They later determined that that would to be a hoax call or even a completely separate incident that just just add.

9:45

To the chaos in the.

Middle of the chaos, right, So just another layer.

Other calls are still coming in, right?

So back to the gunfight, OK, both guys come out, they're moving and shooting.

Officers are shooting back, but the problem is bad guys got bigger batter guns so.

10:02

And all that armor that at that time not they were wearing that, Yeah.

So you're basically ineffective.

You're ineffective.

You're shooting your little 9mm.

They're shooting their armor piercing round at you.

It's just not going well for them, right?

So their guns, they're hitting their landing, that's just not stopping them.

10:20

Ineffective, as you said, they're hitting the body armor and doing nothing.

Officers are getting hit.

The radio traffic, multiple officers are shot over and over again.

Twelve officers were wounded during this in eight civilians.

And this goes on for 44 minutes, a 44 minute running gun battle through a residential neighborhood in North Hollywood.

10:43

So they're managing those units, they're tracking down, they're coordinating that EMS response, routing those additional resources.

SWAT get skeleton.

Of course, one of these SWAT guys, they were actually at the Academy and they heard it and immediately one of them started immediately went and do their gear.

11:02

But his partner didn't have enough time and he showed up in shorts to to respond to this call because that's how fast it escalated and how quickly people were moving to get there.

So at the at that self deployment.

It's crazy because I'm still going back to you said this is 4544 minutes long, which correct mass stats, someone out there I'm sure, but they say most active threats are done between 8:00 and 12:00 minutes now I think is how we're tracking it.

11:29

And so if you can imagine how chaotic that is, and this is 44 minutes long like crazy.

So, and again, guys, 1997, we didn't have an active shooter event every week back in those days.

This was a big lesson that came out of this was this like tactical responses, right?

11:48

So when when active shooter events happen, everyone floods to help.

That's just kind of kind of the culture people pick up that we're working in an active shooter event, they're nearby, they drop into your city.

One of the biggest lesson that came for this, you had officers from multiple divisions converging without necessarily coordinating with dispatch or command.

12:08

So they created their own chaos on the radio, on the street where they leave their cars.

They're blocking access.

EMS can't get through because all these vehicles are spread out, blocking the way.

And that's something we see still to this day happen when it's a very chaotic scene.

12:28

So it's definitely something that we're still learning and improving on.

And keeping in mind LAPD has different divisions, which means like they're probably not efficient as we are now about merging channels.

So each division is working an active shooter like how many dispatchers are impacted, right?

12:46

Like you're not like you said, there was chaos and coordinating so.

All right, so Larry, he goes down first.

He was hit his his weapon finally malfunctioned at a critical moment and he died from a gunshot wound to the head.

And Mill kept going.

13:01

He kept walking and shooting for the better part of that 44 minutes, taking rounds that are bouncing off him.

And his body armor was holding true.

So officers eventually figure out his lower legs weren't armored.

So he takes rounds to the leg goes down, refusing to surrender.

13:18

He bleeds out on the scene.

There's been legal controversy about how long it took medical to reach him, but the scene was still being treated, potentially active because remember, dispatch had open questions about whether there were other suspects.

So when it was over, nearly 2000 rounds had been fired, more than half of them by two people.

13:37

Two people put twelve officers in the hospital.

They wounded eight civilians and shut down a major part of LA for the better.

You know, one of the things we talk about all the time at First Call Ready is that our profession deserves better.

Better training, better support, better tools, better leadership.

13:53

That is exactly why we're excited to partner with this Gen. 911.

They're helping emergency communication centers hire better, train faster and support their people.

Through realistic.

Call simulations, immediate coaching and tools designed for everyone from trainees to supervisors and directors.

14:12

They're helping build stronger teams behind the headset.

Because when dispatchers have the opportunity to practice, learn, make mistakes and grow in a safe environment, they show up more confident when the real call comes in.

They're investing in the future of emergency communications and helping create the kind of profession we all want to be a part of.

14:32

Now let's get back to the show part of the morning.

After all that changed American law enforcement and I imagine since you were working, you know, a couple of years after that, this is probably a conversation pretty recent in your department too.

The department within months, the Department of Defense transferred 600 surplus M16 rifles to LAPD.

14:51

Troll Sergeant started carrying rifles as standard issue.

Patrol cars started getting Kevlar plating and departments across the country looked at what happened and started rethinking their entire patrol life policies.

So let's take a listen.

You know, it's at the end, so I might edited a little bit, but let's take a listen to a little the radio traffic that day 843.

15:17

Question Assistance We have a possible 211 in progress at the Bank of America.

Bank of America No kidding.

In north of kittens we have not fired 39 shows are spying code 3.

Our unit officer needs help at the Bank of America Lower Canyon north of Kittridge.

15:36

Officer needs help Bank of America Lower Canyon north of Kittridge 30. 9 will rest on your code 3. 15839 is responding code 3 our unit Officer needs help lower Canyon north of Kittridge Officer needs help lower Canyon north of Kittridge at the Bank of America, The shots fired.

16:04

We are on the South side.

Thank you all 5 and Rep Our units responding respond northbound there on the South side.

Our units officer needs half shots fire lower Canyon north of Kittridge.

16:20

Lower Canyon north of Kittridge at the Bank of America.

Units responding respond northbound.

Units are on the South side.

Units respond northbound.

The suspects are inside of the bank as they're two living in progress inside the Bank of America north of Lower Correction N lower Canyon north of Kittridge.

16:44

Looks like are inside of the bank one.

Unit on the north side, I want to use it on the South side and I want to use it on the South 15/8. 39 is responding car 3 to Lower Canyon north of Kittridge. 1583 wants the unit on the north side, on the South side and on the rear.

17:02

W 73 we're code 6 on Kittridge and lower Canyon.

W 73 is code 6, Royal Canyon and Kittridge.

You know also code 6.

Identify this.

Is even 24 watch fun?

17:22

The two D 24 is also code 6 Low Canyon north of Kittridge A3.

We won't come in the position themselves, don't we, to lock the front door.

We don't think the suspects know where you're here. 15 L 42 is requesting again to safely position their selves in front of the front door.

17:38

Suspects possibly do not know if the CD is there. 15 L 40 Stay there. 15 L 40 your location.

Any free?

17:58

Would you have all 90?

Contact the bank that's really all low and see if they can get a call in the 2.

R9015R90 Committee The.

Advisor, I think somebody just came out of the front door to Bank of.

America.

Oh, 90, we're taking care of that all.

The net advisors unknown person has exited the bank W 73.

18:18

We got the front of the bank covered.

The 2 W 73 is in front of the bank.

L40V advisor got 2.

Witnesses over here say there's possibly two and three suspects in size.

Possible AK40 sevens are wearing ski masks and dark clothing. 15 L 40 advisors There's two correctional witnesses at the location.

18:35

Advises 2 to 3 suspects at the bank wearing ski masks and AK47L40V advisor.

PR call from Thrifty's advisor observed 6 male blacks under the location.

L40V advise these witnesses say they had AK40 sevens our units.

In route to the 211 in progress at Lower Canyon north of Kittridge, the witnesses, advisors, suspects are armed with AK47, our units at the Tone and part of Laurel Canyon north of Kittridge.

19:01

Tech 5 switch to Tech 5 for 211 in progress.

Four shots are being fired from the set of bank. 13 out 40 more shots are being shired from the suspects at Laurel Canyon north of Kittridge at the Bank of America Disney.

Now can we've got automatic gunfire coming from somewhere from the bank location.

19:21

Also, we need somebody to block traffic at Victory.

The traffic at Kittridge is too close to this bank blocking at Victory.

Kitchen off on our visors.

Water shop to make fire possible on an automatic weapon.

Happiness to block traffic at Victory Northbound.

Kitchen at 85 all. 40 That's the heavy you to block traffic at Sano and your DLT runner to block traffic at the mainstream. 15 out. 40 Roger. 15 L 20 Heavy ambulance respond to Victory and Royal Canyon for standby. 15 L 40 Rogers.

19:50

Fired 15 L 20.

What's the ETA Air support?

Air support has been notified.

Sorry, 20 seconds.

Air support has a 22nd ETA.

More shots are being fired. 15 L 10 is right there.

20:09

Support the shots have been fired and maintain their altitude until you get to see what's going on.

They're going to maintain your absolute altitude.

More shots are being fired from inside the base.

OK.

Hey, the location of locating a kid, frigid and stuff like that, armed with AK47. 15 L 10 I'm requesting a slot.

20:31

Refining this location requesting 18 a slot.

I know 89 advisor Sussex are 2 million Hispanic suspects are last seen westbound through the area. 16 L 10 Roger of the SWAT. 15-L90 advised.

20:47

LTN.

That's what has.

Been notified.

And we also.

Need a telephone number?

Cell phone number from him.

Search now chance what has been notified Stay.

Down and grab an automatic fire the pad in the area with fire only automatic weapons.

21:06

OK, so initial thoughts that radio traffic.

Crazy 'cause we're in a like a, a lull at the beginning, right?

They're on scene so infos kind of slow incoming well.

I was a little confused.

21:22

This is because the straight up officer was really escalated.

So I thought where we dropped in, I was like oh are they already in the gun battle?

Cause like well and again, it's 1997.

I don't know this agency's protocol.

I don't know how they communicate, but officer needs help.

21:39

How they were broadcasting that.

I was like, oh, is he already pinned down 'cause that sounded like a 1199, like an officer down call to me, Yeah.

'Cause it took a while till we got to shots fired.

You know what?

I.

Mean they're still in the bank.

OK, look, so this is probably just I'm just not aware of their their their language how they maybe maybe officer need help me talk call.

22:00

Yeah, like, I don't know, give me a cover or maybe that's maybe that's like a cover, I don't know.

Yeah, by that it's also that threw me off and the part like OK, so shots fired in the bank because then we're well into it and they're all they possibly don't know that police are outside the bank and I'm all oh, so they're popping off rounds inside the bank still.

22:21

They haven't even they're not engaging if they just pop it like ceiling pops or whatever, you know, but not that it makes a difference.

It's just like, but he is escalated.

You're right.

And I'm kind of like, hey.

But I mean, he's seeing it.

He's looking at totally, so he knows like something.

It's makes perfect sense to him, yeah.

22:38

Yeah, but another thing that I thought was really, I don't know, that's nostalgic.

Interesting.

Like knowing that this is 99.7 that dispatcher solid, like even tone the whole time for me, I thought we were we we were a little on air heavy.

22:54

Some of the things we didn't need to repeat, but it seemed more like that was their protocol.

And at that time you're just yeah, exactly.

No, and she's she's clear and concise, which, you know, she, you know, not elevated.

So maybe this wasn't uncommon or like maybe she just is like it didn't she just like little Batty there and then just going.

23:13

But I would say what I strongly remember that how this impacted me when I came into dispatch is we really that's when they started interesting.

The whole like, is anyone wearing body armor?

That was like a question like, you know, and you know, now as we know, when we do active threat training, active shooter trainings, like that's a question that people like you ask people, are they wearing body armor?

23:36

Cuz that's gonna, it does impact the officers response.

I mean, they, they are now equipped with rifles and things to combat this.

But it's good to know because you know, like, you know, your beanbag gun ain't gonna help today, you know, like those type of things.

23:52

But yeah, so I, that's what I remember greatly impacting when I came in that it kind of kind of changed the questioning we were adapting to like the new questioning and stuff.

I, I didn't realize re like listening to this because it's been so long is how long they were in the bank.

Yeah.

They were there was I was trying to speed up a little bit off camera like we let's get to the meet here.

24:13

But yeah, but that was and that's what makes me not to, like analyze A suspect, but like, did you guys ever intend to spend that money?

Yeah, It doesn't seem like we were planning to get out of this.

You know, yeah, you got 300 grand and back and back then 300 grand went way more than it goes even today.

24:30

And I'm not saying 300 grand is not a lot of.

Money not saying to rob a bank.

Don't rob banks.

But no bueno but in.

Their game plan just seemed to be like going out with a blade.

Yeah, like.

Then I'm trying to get away with this money, Yeah.

So that that is mind boggling.

We'll never know, right?

24:46

But I would say if they were in there for so long, all the people think about all the poor customers and people working at the bank, like dude, that just must seem like forever 'cause it felt like a long time listening to the radio traffic there that could you imagine if you're the person in the bank, someone's popping off rounds and yeah, you're just like in 1997.

25:07

I don't want to say it's pre cell phone.

I might have still had my pager back then though.

So, you know, like it like it's just a little different, you know, a little different there a little.

Different back then, you know, this this wasn't commonplace for you to walk to the bank and all of a sudden you're in the middle of a shootout.

25:23

You know, like and unfortunately that's more common now than not, you know, but yeah, man, shout out to you dispatcher.

I I just I was really like happy listening to like the cadence, the tone, you know, the the ability to navigate chaotic people on scene.

25:42

I mean that that and that's.

Coordination with her partners, right, 'cause 'cause they did end up like switching up channels and, you know, making moves and, you know, they were already like the officers staging, staging medical here, let's shut down traffic here 'cause we can't be having strays out here in North Hollywood.

26:02

So that's a lot of coordination.

And she's she's the head coordinator.

But then she has all her team members like supplementing and and helping and I can't imagine.

And, and we haven't even got to the shootout part that lasts 44 minutes.

So Can you imagine?

26:18

Yeah.

Well, I love, you know, that's, that's the, that's the mini sewed critical incident for the day.

But I love talking, you know, 'cause like we're friends, we're homies, but like our, our years in this industry are different.

26:34

And so the fact that I bring this like event, like I'm gonna tell you about none of that.

And you're like, yeah, dummy, that.

Happened that.

Informed my early like I love that aspect of it.

You know, it's just like being able to see like, yeah, I I started a couple years after this and this is how it impacted us back then and we're still talking about how it's impacting us today.

26:55

And that is just going to continue to help get your dispatchers just a love, just a love moment on that.

So all you that remember, and I'm with you.

Don't think I'm not working against you.

You know, we and it's together, but I would just you talked about the all the injured things.

I didn't hear you say any casualties though, So it just sounds like there's twelve officers injured and eight only because the dispatcher, me can't remember that part.

27:20

But also I feel like the dispatcher out there like for what happened.

Make sure.

That is like like for what happened to have, you know, body piercing rounds and be that thing.

And I'd be like, Dang, luck was on everyone's side that.

27:35

Day let me let me check out let.

Me Fact Check that.

Let me Fact Check and see if I didn't if I just didn't note it or.

You were reading.

Through the stats, just them, just the 2.

Two perpetrators injured, 2020 total.

27:51

Twelve officers, 8 civilians.

Yep, the only two were the suspects.

Who?

Died, I mean, not happy about the people that got injured, don't get me wrong, but I'm just like, that is crazy, yeah.

When you said that out loud, I was like, yeah, did I miss that?

No2. 1000 rounds and that heavily armed that nobody actually lost their life today except for the suspects and 1 was an accidental on himself.

28:12

So I mean, like, at the end of the day, I'm like, that's crazy.

What a you know, Yeah, that's, yeah.

Lucky coordinated chaos.

All the things equal to the best outcome for a really shitty.

28:27

Situation for sure.

Well, thank you for joining me for this minute.

So I loved it.

That's a good one.

Walk down memory lane for me.

Until next time, everybody stay raspy.

Stay ready.